UAS News Podcast — 2015-06-26
Audio not available on SoundCloud — full transcript below.
Transcript
Music Hello and welcome to the next installment of the UAS News Podcast Series where we interview newsmakers and discuss news and applications that are relevant to the global unmanned technologies community. I'm your program host Patrick Egan and as always let's say hello and a big warm Texas welcome to our co-host Mr. Gene Robinson. Hello Mr.
Egan, how are you sir? It's hot out here in California. I don't know if it's hotter than Texas but it's hot. You know it's not and the good thing is that we're starting to dry out so we're pretty pleased with that.
Well that's good. So yeah the big news here, Pony Express rode in yesterday to the building next door. The check still didn't come but they did ride in yesterday and it was really hot and poor horses but it was kind of exciting to see. But besides that nothing really is going on besides the topic of the show but before we get into the Drone Racing Championships subject matter I wanted to talk to you about some good news that happened this week.
Maybe you can enlighten the listening audience. Sure, you know I've been pretty much an advocate of USAR or UA-SAR, Unmanned Aircraft Search and Rescue. And this past week we had a very happy ending to a search in which some of the members that came to the SUSB Expo last May and actually came to the SAR workshop and learned a few things and applied some principles up there in Oregon. So I was there and they had an Alzheimer's individual lady, elderly lady that went missing and again this is one of those things I say don't give up, don't ever give up.
But five days she was out in the thicket if you will and she survived and the happy thing about it was is that the Unmanned Aircraft was used to cover some very large expanses of property that they were considering using the ground searchers, the shoulder to shoulder search which is painstaking and long. But they used an unmanned aircraft and they cleared areas in support of the search and that allowed the ground crews, the really critical resources on a search to go into areas that they really couldn't see in too
well and that is what led to them finding this lady and again it's a very happy day for the family and for the searchers and everything.
They've got an individual that was lost for five days, they found her, she was alive, she was dehydrated and pretty good spirit of all things considered. So one for our team I think. Yeah, we definitely say that the theory has been confirmed now. Indeed, it has a validation.
Yeah, it's a happy validation. So my hat's off to you. I know you put a lot of effort and years of work into that and it makes me feel good that as the guy producing the Expo that someone actually took something away that was helpful. I mean I know that that happens but it's usually not a life or death situation.
So I'm happy to hear that and I'm happy for you. I did get the particulars on that and if I catch my breath I want to write an article about that because I think it's a great thing and it's not just some hyperbole, it's actual real world stuff. So congratulations on that. This goes to show Patrick, this goes to show that you're only six degrees away from making something happen in somebody's life.
There you go. Alright, well, you know it makes me feel good, makes me feel like all the effort's worth it. Alright, well let's launch in, that's great, but let's launch into the topic of today's podcast and this week we are going to be talking about the FPV event of 2015. We're talking about the 2015 U.S.
National Drone Racing Championships with our guest Scott Refsland, race director for the U.S. National Drone Racing Championships. Scott, could you please introduce yourself to the audience and tell us how you got into drone racing?
Sure thing. Well, hey everybody, my name is Scott. I'm the designated tour guide for this summer's big race event. We've been doing FPV racing over here in Berkeley for about a little over a year and a half.
And we kind of started talking around and people were pretty interested in doing a little bit more of a formalized racing structure. So I just happened to be talking to somebody who was talking to somebody and that six degrees suddenly led me to the state fair. And they said, you know, we're talking about doing drone races at the fair. And I said, wow, that's kind of crazy.
And then somebody said, hey, is anybody doing the states? And so we asked around to see if somebody's doing the state national and they said, no. And then we asked around and said, anybody doing the nationals?
And so the state fair said, well, we'll do it. And so they ponied up and pushed me to the front. There I am. So it's been quite an exciting ride over the last, I guess, three months now.
We've only been doing it. Well, you know, I've been down there to the Caesar Chavez Park down there in Berkeley. And, you know, actually, it was kind of funny how I stumbled across the FPV thing down there. So I was doing an AP news story and they were actually interviewing me on the other side of the marina there so you could see the bridge.
And then a reporter came out and we're doing the interview or whatever. And as I was walking back to the car, I'm like, hey, I could kind of see some quads out there flying and whatever else. And I heard them and I'm going to go out there and see what's going on. And there were a bunch of guys out there flying FPV and kind of racing around and whatever else.
Great bunch of guys. If you ever, I would say, if you ever get the chance to go out there, you're in Berkeley, California for some reason, you should you should try and hook up with these guys and go out there and fly because it's pretty nice. Great group of guys go out there and gals and people are very helpful and they're really proud to show off their FPV racers and to show you what they can do. I mean, is that kind of how you got into this or were you doing something else, Scott, where you saw it or what?
How did you get into it? Well, I've been in I've been in sort of this industry for decades, maybe. I have a PhD in virtual reality, believe it or not. And so I've been in kind of the virtual reality space for since about 1985, maybe 1990.
So I'm one of those rare cats that have been around for quite a while. And I've been dabbling kind of in a location based computing augmented reality. And like I had the Google glass that came out, I had that back in 1997. And so, you know, the industry has been working on kind of the augmented reality stuff for years.
And about two years ago, I bumped into a friend who was flying, you know, a quadcopter. And that was the black hole I dived into. And I haven't found the bottom of it yet. It's very exciting because of the you know, my first set that we purchased with thirty five thousand dollars.
And now you can buy a pair of cat sharks for, you know, four hundred bucks and get pretty much, you know, double the resolution and half the speed and, you know, the more fall kind of stuff. And so the FPV racing, what really intrigued me is that, you know, my whole career has been about education. And I've been building big software applications for EdTech for years and years. And so when I saw the FPV racing part of it, it just naturally went up.
This is a great STEM application because this teaches ambitious science, technology, math, engineering, all of the sciences. But it teaches it in a really project based environment. So it's very, very sticky to kids. And so I'll have a kid that's, you know, ten, twelve years old.
And they'll come out to Berkeley and they'll with their dad and they're like, oh, my God, this is so cool. And I go, all right, have you ever flown before?
And he goes, no, I've only been doing it on my phone at home. And I'm like, well, all right, smart advance. Here's the goggles. There's my controller.
Go for it. And five minutes they're flying around the course just like any other racer out there. So I see that it's a very, very, very exciting, very sticky, very interesting piece that both we can we can teach young kids about acceptable use, acceptable, responsible flying. And at the same time, they're learning like hardcore, you know, academic stuff that's going to give them a really nice cross-discipline basis for a future career at NASA or like Adobe Aviation or Google X or any of those guys.
So it's preparing an industry basically for future professionals. Well, you know, there's some other points you're hitting on there in that, you know, in what your answer there. And I think that one of the things that I really like about the FPV racing, I mean, I don't have an FPV rig, to be honest. I'm not a race.
I got to get one in my spare time. But the one thing that I really like and I've noticed from the different events I've gone to and if anybody hasn't seen them, you could go over to the SUAS News YouTube channel. And I have posted some videos from some different races and people practicing and whatever else is that the thing that you hit on is this is something that families can do. Parents can do.
Dads and daughters and sons can do. And they come out together and it's something that they can get into together and build and fly and have a good time. And that is that's where a technology really starts to, let's say, you know, be absorbed by regular folks. They start saying, hey, this is something we can do.
And, you know, me and a friend and his dad or something else could come in and do this and we can, you know, work together or race against each other or whatever. And people kind of will be able to see it and say, oh, this isn't an innocuous technology. You know, this is really we were scared about these drones and here are these cute little drones and Johnny and Billy and Suzy. You know, these 10 and 12 year olds are out here flying around.
You know, they don't look too dangerous. So this is the 21st century Pinewood Derby races. You got it. I love it.
Yeah. It's hit their car with fiber. Yeah. Well, I mean, I'm dating myself there.
I understand that. But, you know, we could red salt that one, but we will not. We will move on. But, you know, no, it's exactly like that.
And I can see the Boy Scouts getting into this, you know, Boys and Girls Club, blah, blah, blah, YMCA. I had talked to the YMCA about getting involved in a couple of these robotic projects in the Bay Area. And they were like, oh, yeah, come talk to us. This would be great.
We'd love to do it again. Not a lot of time. It's like when I was mentoring the Robotics Club over here. Man, I feel like a heel on that deal.
But anyway, we won't go into that story either. Anyway, let's keep this on an upbeat tone here. But so, you know, we're going to go out to CalExpo and I want to talk a little bit about the field. Again, there are some videos, a beautiful venue for this.
Tell us a little bit about the experience of working with the folks at CalExpo. I know they're excited and supportive. Could you talk a little bit about working with them?
Sure. And, you know, maybe, Patrick, we need to actually explain what FPV, First Person Drone Racing View, means, which is... Sure. Racing of FPV is, you know, a lot of people say, well, it feels like an out-of-body experience because you actually fly as if you were in the pilot's seat, as if you actually really are flying a rig.
So that's the difference between typical, like, pylon racing or aircraft racing is because you're flying those by line of sight. And so you have a 3D dimension that you have to deal with in terms of when you fly the aircraft. The difference in why this is so amazingly just, you know, very interesting and very sticky for a lot of folks is that you get to sit in the pilot's seat and fly as if you're right then and there. The only difference though is if you do crash, then you're like, well, actually, I'm okay.
That didn't hurt. And so you can try it again. So that's what's really making this thing quite exciting. The CalExpo guys, what was very interesting about them is that we're all, as an industry, seeing that FPV racing has the potential to be a Formula One or our next Rotorcross or the next, you know, big type of racing.
And if you look at it, it probably has the humble beginnings of, like, how they figured out, like, a golf game, right? Well, golf balls, what, a couple inches wide at best. And, you know, you hit that down, of course. Well, how exciting is that for somebody to watch a ball that you can hardly see?
And so probably they had to figure out how to make it sticky and how to make the social engagement to that. And so that's where FPV racing is right now is that when you look at FPV racing in general, it looks like a bunch of gnats flying out in the middle of the field. And you're like, well, who was that?
And how is it all fitting together? And who won?
So what CalExpo started looking at was they, their demographic at the moment is aging and they need to come up with something that's different than a, you know, a new falafel or a new type of, you know, fair midway ride. And so they were looking for what is the cross between pop culture and technology?
And who could address the audience that's in the 18 to 30 years old? Drones is that because this is the year, the couple of years of drones. Society is polarized, intrigued, excited, attracted to it. So it's a really great venue to kind of look at things from both sides of the coin.
And CalExpo is about that. And so if you look at state fairs and what they've been doing since 1850, 1855, I think it's when Cal State Fair itself started, And so it's a really great venue to look at. And so Cal State Fair is about getting all the farmers in the local area together to put down their business to business competition nature and go head to head with pies or cows or something like that. And the result of that community spirit came out of a rising tide, floats all ships kind of things.
It helped you do farming better. It disseminated the technology. And so when CalExpo was talking about that, I like, oh, this is a perfect venue to get everybody that's in the industry to really talk about how can we move the dialogue and discussion from all drones or mistletoeing and peeping toms to drones are an exciting way to do racing. And then the word drone disappears and we're all about racing.
And that's where I'm seeing that if we, CalExpo and the whole team here at Drone Nationals, we've been talking how do we bring the audience into drone racing so that it's a human engagement. It's all about the racers. It's all about the sport. It's all about the competition.
And oh yeah, we happen to be flying a rig that has a couple of rotors on it instead of one big rotor or those kind of things. Well, and then I know at the venue they have like, I don't know if I would call it a jumbotron because I know what the brand name is, but they have a large screen. Are we going to be broadcasting video on that or is that something that we have a capability of doing or to show the audience that's being seen?
Okay, that's going to be exciting. I think people are going to really like that. I think we're going to draw a lot of folks in. So the other thing I wanted to talk to you because I talked to you and definitely SUS News wants to get in and help sponsor this.
And we talked a little bit about safety and risk mitigation. And we had talked about this offline and I was kind of impressed. It really seems, Scott, that you guys had thought about safety, mitigating risk, and kind of ran down the list of items that need to be covered. Do you want to talk a little bit about that?
Absolutely. And in fact, you know, up to this point because FPV racers have sort of been the, you know, the underdogs, the kind of the whip dog that the public's been whipping them or the FAA issues and all that kind of stuff. And so we've sort of been the outliers. But what that has also done is created a bit of people that don't understand what safety means or unacceptable use.
And you can go on YouTube and you can see them all happening. And so one of the pieces that we wanted to address was that very specific fact. So we've been talking a lot to the FAA, to the AMA, the Academy for Model Aeronautics, because those guys have been around for years and years and years. They, like, if you think about it, when you get on an airplane, do you ever worry about any safety issue, like other than maybe your own, you know, personal paranoia?
But the way that the FAA has done things is that they are fantastic at making you feel safe and in a safe environment. So we've been we've been working with them and the AMA to say, all right, what are the best practices towards this?
What's the closest thing that we can get? Well, right now, the closest thing is pylon racing. And when Bob from the Prism and from AMA was telling me about pylon racing, he says, well, usually the airframes are about five pounds and they go about 200 miles an hour. And they can blow through a chain link fence.
I'm like, holy crap. Ours is only like about 700 grams, which is about a pound and a pound and a half, maybe a little under that. Maybe we'll go about 80 miles an hour. But what we took away from that whole discussion with Bob and Dave and the competitive directors of AMA was talk about the energy force and direction.
Don't direct your your your rigs directly at the audience. And so they gave us all of that stuff at Fast Practice, how to design a very efficient and safe course. Second piece is that we're putting up netting. Netting is 30 feet high.
It goes it wraps all around the 12000 seat stadium. And so and we also restrict our airspace. Now, a lot of people from FAA have been saying, oh, you know, 400 feet airspace. Well, our airspace is 50 feet.
And the reason why that is, is that we are in a racing competition sport. And I don't know if you know anything about racing, but even if you're like racing in a marathon, if you if you go upwards, you're losing time. And so the same thing with with FPV racing. If you go over 10 feet out of your your trajectory path, you just lost seconds of time.
So most of the racers that will be racing here will only go maybe at most 10 feet high. So there's no way to be going up in the 50 feet high and that kind of stuff. So we've been doing things like that. We we have a very rigorous vetting process for all of the pilots just to make sure they can actually make it around the track.
That got intermediate to advanced skills. And the other pieces that we've been talking about or we're implementing are fail safe procedures that are directly on the rigs. The difference between the large UAS is that you guys fly and the rigs that the DJI big cameras on their their fail safe is to return to home or to lock on a GPS device. Ours is down throttle or cut off.
No pulse. And the reason why that is, is that if you lose video or you lose stuff, you just you basically or you lose radio signal, the rig will fall out of the air. Because ours is not a ten thousand dollar rig with a you know, a GH4 camera hanging off of it. Our rig is a five hundred dollar rig and it is battle proof.
It's built for being wrecked and trashed and that kind of stuff. So it's in our interest to drop out of the air as fast as we can. And so we've been racing for a year in Berkeley with zero accidents, you know, knocking on wood because most of the guys that we've attracted there have been very articulate thinkers, tinkerers and just have that innate logic safety built into them. And we're all we're all very, very that's top of mind the way we think about that.
From a CalExpo point of view, what they've been doing is they have their own risk mitigation, their own crisis management systems that are put in place. And so we have things like we've got first aid kits that are all over the place. We've got fire extinguishers all over the place. We have an EMT tent that's around there and there's a whole procedure for talking about all the safety issues.
So I'm comfortable with where we are. This is the brand new event that we've never put in this many people in there before. So everybody's on DEF CON 5 high alert to make sure things going to be safe for everybody. Well, that's that's good.
And you did I was going to touch on that. There's you know, qualifying for the pilots and pilots meeting and all the rest of that. So, you know, you've you've you've thought about the risks you mitigated the risk was good because I'm a little you know, before we had talked, I was like, oh, you know, I got to be careful here because it is kind of a big stadium. There's there's going to be lots of people.
And I think there's going to be lots of people because it's going to be very exciting. I know here in Sacramento, people are talking about it. People that I know are like, oh, yeah, did you hear they're going to have drone races at CalExpo?
And I'm like, no, I didn't. And I'm like, yeah. And so, you know, talking about it on the news and in the papers and on the different websites and whatever else. But some of the other excitement about this and what people really like about an event like this, the racing and the competition is there's there's talk of surprise money.
And I know there was some some, you know, some things were being thrown around as far as amounts and stuff. Could you could you could you talk a little bit about the the purposes?
Sure. So when CalExpo and and our team were talking in the very beginning of stuff, they they said, well, hey, we'll pony up a big stadium and we'll pony up all the press and all that kind of stuff. What are you putting it up?
And I'm like, yeah, and they're like, no, no, no, no, no. Talk talk about like some serious stuff to get some people there. I said, would 25 Rand do?
And they go, OK, now we're talking. We're ready to get that. So we've we've we've passed the hat around. We did a big old chip in and we came up with 25 grand and we put it at that number for a couple of reasons.
One of them was that we wanted to get everybody's attention. And we also wanted to test the waters to see what it would be like to do a legitimate FPV racing event with cash. What does that do?
Is that going to polarize the industry? Is it going to polarize the pilots?
Because, you know, already we've had people going like, oh, you're you're bastardizing the sport now because it's all community. And, you know, and then all the other side is like, oh, I could be a professional because I'm I'm so keen to be in this industry. There are so many people wanting to be a professional in this business because it's just fun as heck to do. You know, who who doesn't like flying for your business?
You know, so you know, that are. You're hitting on a couple of funny points. And Gene, you've probably experienced some of this is it's we've been here for a while and it's kind of a damned if you do and a damned if you don't. Would you agree with that?
Yeah, yeah. You know, and what really gets me, you said 25K. Geez, you know, I could sit in my Barca lounger and practice this thing and come out and maybe win some bucks. It's been better than I've been doing the last couple of years.
So, hey, you got my attention. Let's go. Well, the other thing with that is, you know, when you, you know, I as a younger man, I used to do some motocross dirt bike racing, whatever else, which was lots of fun, hard on the body, but lots of fun. But it costs money to travel to these venues.
You know, it costs money to have a motorcycle. I know that the the FPV rigs are a little bit less, but I'm sure like anything else in this field, the technology is ever evolving. And if you're going to be a contender, you're going to be buying the newest, hottest stuff constantly. And we all know that doesn't grow on trees.
So, yeah, it's kind of further the sport. And I think that's going to be a lot of excitement. And I know, you know, that you have some pilots out there. I kind of I like I've seen some of that one woman, Zoe, I think is her name that's done supplying.
She's pretty I got to talk to her. Oh, she's a cool one out there, man. She that woman is oh, man, she she is a very cool hand loop flyer. I can fly under like really hard core pressure.
So watch out, guys. I know she's going to be I think she's going to be the one to watch. And then so OK, so now are we going to are we are we going to break this prize money down or is it like cutthroat winner take all?
How's that going to go down? There's a there's a 10 grand purse for the the the main champion. And then there's going to be a breakdown of a team sport and then a freestyle competition. And the freestyle is an invitation only those are the the hottest of the hottest.
And we're going to be releasing that list here very soon. That's going to be incredibly exciting. There's a couple of really interesting things to be announced in that one. And then the bigger piece that's the coolest is the state fair is going to be giving out gold belt buckle as swag trophies to all the winners.
So that's going to be the hottest thing out there is the is the the classic gold belt buckle, man. It is very cool. All right. That sounds pretty exciting, too.
So, you know, we have all that and it's all broken down. That's pretty cool. So, you know, I mean, as far as you see this deal and we've kind of covered some of it, but I mean, you know, who instead of like really who should come out, who are you hoping to see show up to?
Well, yeah. So I think anybody and everybody. And this is why we started, you know, with vendors. We started with sponsors.
We started with anybody in the business, all the leagues, aerial GP, multi GP, aerial sports league. We invited all of those guys because we're like, you know what?
Let's do this traditional state fair style. You got every competitor in the room. We've we basically, you know, blew the whistle on on halftime and we're having we're in we're in the we're in the bars party and we're having a great time in the discussion and collaboration. And so in the same token, what we're looking for is anybody who's interested in their own business or interested in flying, whether it's professional, whether it's hobby, whether it's come out.
And so we're we've created a very exciting event. We've got 24 vendors, 24 sponsors from manufacturers from, you know, Fatshark to get FPV to immersion RC to, you know, anybody all the name folks in the business. A multi rotor super stores just down the street here in the West Coast and Santa Cruz. So all of those guys are all going to be there.
And we also have some very exciting stuff. We've got the Aerial Sports League bringing their combat cage out so you can see the drone fighting in its finest. I don't know if you guys went to the Maker Faire here recently, but those guys have 10 to 12 people deep for from start to end. It's just hardcore facts that fast action.
And the bigger one that just came on board was the DJI Games. And that's an obstacle style course flying thing. That's very exciting stuff. They're coming in.
They're bringing a couple of DJI phantoms. So everybody knows the you know, the white quadcopter. That's pretty much the standard industry of everybody knows those. So they're coming out and allowing people to take their hand at the wheel and do some some obstacle course flying.
So anybody that's interested in it, definitely come out and take a look. Yeah, that's I think it's going to be a really interesting time and hands on for the public and people to see this. It's going to be exciting. Plus all the fair food.
That's kind of what I'm looking forward to. Yeah. I like to eat my way through the midway and then but we will go into that. All right.
So Scott, we're almost running out of time, but I want to get the website where people can find out more information. So could you give us that and the Twitter?
Sure. You can go to drone nationals dot com. That's our main website where you go to Facebook slash drone nationals or Twitter is twitter dot com slash drone national. So we anything that drone nationals you can type it in drone nationals.
That's that's where you can find us. All right. Well, that's excellent. And, you know, you as the as you as news myself will be out there July 15 through 17 at CalExpo.
And I'm going to be looking forward to this event. I hope to spend a lot of time out there. Hopefully we'll get some video and put it out there so people can see what all the excitement is about. Scott, best of luck on this one, buddy.
Thanks for being on. And, you know, I'll see you later next month. Actually, the other thing we're going to be doing is we're going to be streaming this thing live so you can actually watch the races live if you can't. If you're not in the Sacramento area, just go to drone nationals dot com slash live and you can find us there.
I'll be there. OK, sounds good. All right, you guys, until next week. Have a good week.
Thanks, Patrick. See you. Thanks, Gene. You bet.