UAS News Podcast — 2012-06-06
Audio not available on SoundCloud — full transcript below.
Transcript
Hello everybody, this is your host Patrick Egan. I'm your host Patrick Egan. I'm going to be flying solo today as our co-host Gene Robinson is off flying for NIST with another future podcast guest, Steve Morris from MLB and that's www.spyplanes.com. It's interesting to go check out his site.
He's been at it for a while. He's got the Superbat UAS and I believe that is what they are flying for part of that exercise. And again, like I've got to remind anyone, all I can say is this is the kind of acumen and practice you get here at SUAS News. You can go to other sites and read the news or come here and get your information and views from contributors that are making the news.
That's pretty much it in a nutshell for the SUAS News. Steve Morris is an interesting guy. He's been at this for a while, an engineer. He's been around for many years and another guy that really wanted to do commercial type of activities or research in science with unmanned aircraft technologies.
We had this quick conversation at the Silicon Valley Chapter meeting last week which that was a barn burner. I wish we could get more people involved in that. We had about 25 people and I'll go into it a little bit more. Anyway, so he was at the Chapter meeting and I side barred him after the meeting and I asked him about his feelings on the FAA Test Center concept.
He really had some enlightening stuff to say. We were on the same page but I think he took it a step further with what types of concepts or provisions would need to be made by proponents to make it worth it for him to come. I thought he was right on target, makes sense to me. We talked a little bit about these concepts and I had been on one of these groups for Arizona talking to them about or with the group organizing, trying to do a test center
and I had asked for a scope of what they wanted to fly and they came back and said, well, we want to fly everything all the way on up to ScanEagle or I'm sorry, up to Global Hawk or Golden Hawk as I like to call it.
I said, okay, well, the overhead at one of these test facilities to facilitate that type of flying is going to cost a boatload of money and I don't see how a small business would be able to come in here and actually support that overhead. Anyway, he promised to come on and I think he's got some ideas that test center proponents should hear. Last week was a little nuts. I was running around like a crazy person.
We had Darrell Davidson who is the Executive Director of the AVSI Foundation out here to present again at the Silicon Valley AVSI Chapter meeting which by the way again was a burn burner. I wish we could get more people in on this. We had 25 people there. We spoke to Brian Walker Smith was there and spoke also.
Great exchange of ideas. He went into a little bit more detail about the driverless car or self-driving vehicles and product liability. I think that really overlaid into some of the commercial let's say considerations for people that are going to sell products on the commercial market. That was pretty good.
Then everybody side barred and we hung out until nine o'clock or later. Usually when I've found most of these meetings are over, it's all taillights and tires squealing out in the parking lot but not the case here. Like a mini symposium. It was really good.
Me and Darrell took a meeting with Chris Anderson to eat yourself drones, Wired Magazine and it tore the facility including reddit.com and some scenes inside the shadowy danger room. It was kind of funny that it tore and included some dot com staple holdovers like the you can't have an IT or technology business that doesn't have a ping pong table and a keg meister. Those are the staples. You got to have that.
We also enjoyed a great conversation. It was good to see Chris again. A few years back we did a Wired Science episode together. There was a couple of us out there and me and Jeff Johnson and Stuart Long.
We talked about capturing the first aerial photography or aerial photo with an iPhone and how we employed the Carl's Jr. method. I believe that's on the SUAS News YouTube channel. You can go over there and check it out.
It's kind of funny. The other thing I wanted to talk about today was the kickoff of the symposium season and RPA 2012 in Paris is in full swing as we speak. Formerly that show was called UAS 2011. I wrote a roundup article for that last year that you can find in the archives at SUAS News.
Anyway, the nomenclature has changed because IKO has adopted RPA, remotely piloted aircraft. For those of you that haven't attended Peter von Blienberg's show, I would suggest that you make it sort of a UAS lifetime goal or even a hodge. At least get over there once and check it out. It is the premier airspace integration symposium.
Top tier people from companies and civil aviation authorities from around the globe. Peter puts on an excellent straightforward affair with the best food and spirits hands down. I will say that at his symposium you are able to ask very pointy questions which believe it or not I have done. I have made more than one representative from the FAA frustrated.
There are pictures of that from where me and Bruce Tarver up on stage. Everybody is a little out of the collar. Anyway, it is all fun and games. Then after that we have the Aviation System North America show in sunny Las Vegas August 6 through the 9.
I will say that I used to live in Vegas for a while, believe it or not. I went there to straighten up. I think I was in my late teens. I was thinking maybe they picked that venue in Vegas in August.
They might want to set up some sort of OEF simulator in the back. You get like 100 yards of sand, bring it in, fill up the HESCO, get some port-a-potties and give everybody that deployed experience. Anyway, I will be there. Definitely come and say hi.
Let's talk. I usually don't make it through the whole hall. It takes me a little while because I know so many people. If you are out there and you spot me, I would definitely like to either come over, say hello, introduce yourself, let's talk.
That is the end of the first segment. We will be moving into the next segment. Today's guest is Andrea Kay from the Robotics Launchpad. Andrea, I am sorry, produced a few recent robotics events in Silicon Valley.
I met her at the robotics block party. That was a real success. There was a bunch of folks at that event that I got to meet. It was really a great, great time.
I wanted to bring her on today. I wanted her to kind of talk about what she does. Andrea, are you there?
Hi, Patrick. Thank you very much for inviting me onto the podcast. Hey, we are delighted. Yes, I can hear you.
I am delighted to have you here. Some people, again, we are mainly focused on unmanned aircraft systems. As I tell everybody, most of these technologies I think overlap each other. I definitely subscribe to a theory where I see a day where you have a control station and you have a guy or a girl sitting in there and they are controlling flying vehicles and ground vehicles and also surface and ROVs or whatever.
I think all of this just kind of overlays. I find it absolutely amazing. I wanted to kind of, let's say, impart upon the listener some of the stuff that I have seen from what you produce. Maybe you can tell the listeners about yourself and a little bit about how you got into this and what your interests are and where they lay.
Thanks, Patrick. I do agree with you. I think robotics is a whole ecosystem and whether it's at the control end or whether it's at the research end, there isn't a clear separation necessarily between what sort of robotic system you're working on. I mean, if you're working in vision, for example, that's applicable in so many different areas.
I'm interested in looking at the whole ecosystem. I've always been a geek. I grew up in a physics lab practically playing with rockets and punch card computers and all of that kind of geeky stuff. But I did digress into filmmaking while I was younger and other more and other areas which I think are still quite technological.
But my deep interest has been in how society shapes technology, not just how technology shapes society. Looking at the co-shaping relationships there. So recently I went back and did an advanced research degree in the shaping of technology and technology shaping society which specifically for me was in human robot culture. We actually moved here from Australia while I was still finishing my thesis.
I didn't really know what I was going to do at the end of it. I kind of assumed that I would roll on into another academic institution but I was too busy with the thesis to think about it terribly. I just knew that if I moved anywhere in America, I thought that Silicon Valley was definitely the place that I wanted to be, that it was such an incredible cauldron of creativity and technology. I do believe this region has the best that America has to offer in those areas and I think it has a lot to do with the creative culture here.
I was very interested in exploring how that creativity and at times anarchy and the very high growth internet technology sector, how they all played together with robotics. I think Robot Launchpad has come about realizing that there aren't always clear paths to an extent robotics is siloed or insulated from a lot of the other activities and that can include access to funding and joining in on the high growth of the internet
and mobile technologies. Now that smartphones are becoming more integral to robotics, I think that the time is definitely right for robotics to be leveraging a lot of what the Silicon Valley ecosystem for startups has to offer.
The evangelism thing is kind of funny. I always get a little chuckle out of that. You know what?
I'm going to preach into the choir over here. Everything you said resonates with me. I will say the Silicon Valley thing is kind of funny and you actually coming from a different country and noticing all of those traits of the people and culture in Silicon Valley is definitely something a little bit different. When I work in other states, people are like California, you're a bunch of weirdos, blah, blah, blah.
But I do think that incubator, the ecosystem that you were talking about in Silicon Valley is different. It's definitely a different school of thought. There are some really highly educated folks down there. Everybody's got a PhD.
It blows me away. The way people think are really different. I think that is that incubator of creativity. It is definitely a different school of thought.
And kind of the stuff that you've done, I've learned that engineers want to engineer and scientists want to do research. It's kind of hard to get those people and funnel them into a business type of climate. They're more into making stuff work or developing stuff. Did you find that down there?
I definitely agree with you on that. But I think one of the answers is to rather than push people out of their comfort zone so much as also set up the ability to drag people in. I think there are a lot of people, a lot of business people, designers, product development people who don't quite grasp the possibilities with robotics. And I do see this as being a communication channel.
It's not... Robot Launchpad can help move robotics, roboticists and engineers who are interested in developing startups. We can help that pathway but we're also able to provide it to Two Way Street, a pathway for people who are interested in developing businesses to do that with robotics. You know, and while you're on that subject, what I'd like you to do if you could for the listeners is could you mention your website please?
Yes, Robot Launchpad website is RobotLaunch.com. So that's R-O-B-O-T-L-A-U-M-C-H.com. And we've got a newsletter that you can sign up for which talks about some of the events that we have coming up like the Homebrew and Robot Launchpad Potluck at Google later on in June. And possibly an IP and robotics talk that Ryan Kalos in the Center of Internet and Society is organizing at the moment with details to be confirmed later.
And I've just announced the Robot Launchpad Grand Challenge which captures some of the themes we've just talked about. I mean really, why should DARPA have all the fun?
Now the Robot Launchpad Grand Challenge says take an existing robot platform and turn that into a robot business. And I suggest going with an autonomous mobile platform like the Adept mobile platform but not limited to that or a semi-autonomous drone like the PowerA.R. drone but not limited to that. Something that can be easily controlled through an iPad or touch screen or smartphone interface, not just a computer interface and something where the robotics is a solved problem.
Right. And largely a solved problem. The issue is how do you do something new with a system that's already developed?
And I think there is a huge potential in robotics for creative use of robotics technology that has already been developed. And I don't think that there is enough time and energy put into developing businesses. And I think it's quite safe to say that you'll get a million dollars if you succeed in one of these Grand Challenges because you'll earn it. You will create a business that earns revenue.
And you could quite probably create a business that earns a lot more than a million. There are a lot of ideas but people need to do the next step and execute on them. They need to find a particular market segment, look at exactly how to customize these existing robots to service that market segment and develop a business model around that so that you're generating revenue. And I think robotics is ripe for a service industry and for repurposing existing robot platforms in creative fashions.
And I'm happy to throw out ideas. I have heaps of ideas. And one of the ones I threw out a couple of years ago I'd just seen in the news two days ago, it's being rolled out in Australia. And I said, look, now that unmanned aerial vehicles are becoming cheapest chips, it's not just, well, comparatively speaking, it's not just a TACO copter.
And I don't believe the TACO copter idea had been unveiled at that time. What are the other areas that might be small compared to say a large scale mining or manufacturing purpose?
But there are other niche areas where you can suddenly enable vision or communication in an area where people haven't gone, where there is a really high value in having that. And I said, well, Australians, we love the surf. Surf life saving is an iconic part of Australian culture. What if you were able to send the drones out as well as the surf lifesavers on the jet skis?
And I realized, I saw the news yesterday and drones are about to play a key part in surf safety in Australia with the partnership with the Surf Life Saving Association of Australia. And I'm just searching and they're running a trial now in Queensland. Yeah, I read that story on the SUAS news. Those guys are on top of stuff.
But, you know, it also, there are a million uses for unmanned aircraft. And I really, you know, like you said, there's so many. And, you know, the funny thing is we're seeing a lot of stuff in the news where people are like, oh, we got this new use for unmanned aircraft. But I got to be honest, before the regulations came, a lot of these things were already being done.
But I do think that we need to revisit that and focus, shift our money away from the bigger systems to systems that are made domestically from small businesses and doing these jobs where it's like you're helping people, saving lives or growing food or whatever else. And hopefully we're going to work with some people and get that message out there. Yes, I think it's certainly one way to mobilize a large group of people in support of the technology that doesn't otherwise seem to have a positive impact on their lives.
But if you start to play a part in water safety or other forms of safety, particularly that of children, then you suddenly got a huge group of people that have a lot vested in seeing legislations change. Right, absolutely. And, you know, I've tried to, as an advocate for the technology, I mean, that's how I got into this deal with a small business guy, heard that the feds were going to clamp down and was like, whoa, wait a minute. You know, that's not fair.
We, you know, this technology can do a lot of things. And I got into it that way. And I will say just as the same as we find the engineers who want to engineer and the scientists want to do research, they're not interested in advocating for themselves. A lot of people just sit back and figure, well, you know, we'll let the DOD vendors are doing all the advocacy for us and spending all the money there.
And, you know, in my mind, and I don't want to get too far into the weeds on this, that notion is folly because these people are building the regulations around their products. And they don't care about the little person at all. That's, which is too bad because I do think that the proliferation of this technology is more transformative than even the marine technology. It's broadcast to a smaller group of people, but the technology that's out there today can be applied and start helping people in a bigger scale.
And I think robotics too. You know, one thing I wanted to, when you were talking about these contests, you know, it makes sense to me. And again, what you're talking about is great because, you know, when you talk about a competition, the most grueling competition of them all is business. And if you can build a product, bring it to market and be successful, you know, you're really, you're a winner.
And it's hard to put that whole recipe together. And that's one thing where my hat's off to you and what I saw at the robotics block party. You know, it's hard for me to kind of describe that because, of course, it's theater of the mind. We're not doing video or whatever.
But if people were able to come to that and see the types of people that came there, and the place was crawling with venture capital people who I had talked to and said, you know, we want to fund these technologies. We want to fund unmanned technologies. But we don't, there's a little bit of a disconnect because we don't really understand what these people are trying to do. And that's where I think you're coming in and filling that gap.
Is that a fair assessment? I hope so. I certainly agree with you that this seems to be where the gap is. There are a lot of people doing research and engineering and doing a brilliant job.
But I think to a large extent they are seeking their funding through different channels. It's probably more of a known path. And there are a lot of people that would like to grow robot businesses but are either not sufficiently aware of the robotics or not sufficiently aware of the business side. And I'm hoping that Robot Launchpad is sitting in the middle to facilitate the transfer of skills, technology, information and funding.
And I certainly think that Silicon Valley is the right place for this because we're building on such a deep and rich startup ecosystem. And I love the way you express that. Business is the biggest competition of all. It is easy to develop a product.
I have to say it compared to developing the business, I think developing the robot technology is actually easier. And I think a lot of people think it stops when you've developed a really great technology. But it somehow turns into a product, walks itself out of the building, gets itself funded, markets itself, creates distribution channels. And you don't have to worry about it after that.
There's how much in that involved there. There you go. If you could make that whole business process at manned and I could just collect the check, I'm down for that. We could have one of these quadcopters deliver me a nice cold cider on the beach.
Now I do... I would just say the exciting thing in making startups more of an automated process is the infiltration of lean startup methodology in the last decade and changes around funding, which include the Jobs Act and crowdfunding. I think what you're seeing is the breaking down of a few of the institutional walls and restrictions around getting companies off the ground. And ground fails fast, moves forward rapidly, preventing a lot of expensive investment in businesses that aren't actually going to recoup.
So investing in technology is becoming less risky than it was simply through lean startup methodology and some changes in the funding infrastructures. Well, and I would agree with that. I definitely think that our society is bifurcated. And when I say that, I mean in the old school thinking of business and regulation and maybe even insurance.
And then there are the younger people bringing in a whole different business mindset kind of like what you just described. I will say that most people that I talk to, especially in the unmanned aircraft world, really don't have a grasp of what you're talking about. I talk to people and they were there. People are trying to recruit me for companies or whatever and they sell my company.
I make so much money on every copy. I just can't believe how much I make. And so that's subjective because I can think of making a lot of money. I like that Bentley that – what's her name – Victoria Beckham drives around.
I can see myself in one of those. That's a lot of money. No, well, I've sold four planes this year and I make $8,000 a copy. That's not really a lot of money when you think about you're competing against people who are willing to go places and do demonstrations for free.
There's the show circuit, the trade show circuit. And depending upon what you have in the ground vehicle or an air vehicle, it might be Euro Satori. It might be Paris Air Show, Foreign Borough, Berlin, Singapore. And then there's the marketing and the advertising.
And that could easily roll into several hundred thousand dollars a year. And I don't think anybody really thinks about that. And I'm not saying that every startup has got to think that big. But depending upon, let's say, throwing the dart at the dartboard of where you see your business or you wanting to be, there are a lot of factors to think about.
And are you trying to, with the robotics launch, the launch pad, are you trying to, let's say, educate people this way or do you take a little bit of a different approach? I'm hoping to educate people around the pathway from technology to product. And those two things are not the same thing. One is something you build and the other is something that is solving a problem for people that people are going to use.
It's not a seamless transition. And I think that lean startup methodology might not be as useful as agile manufacturing for very, very high end, expensive, complicated, long build projects. But I'm very interested in the small end where there are consumer components, modular components that are already available, where your actual investment in building a technology is a lot smaller and ways of getting things more or less from your backyard out into the world. I think there's a lot that can be done in that space particularly.
And I think the drones, the DIY drone movement has been wonderful in showing people how a technology can get smaller, get more accessible and get more in people's faces. And I think Chris Anderson actually put the opinion, what will we do with quadricopters when every kid at school has one?
We just can't even think that. That's true. I don't mean to cut you off but we're down at 30 seconds before the show is over. And again, we covered a lot of real estate, great conversation.
As always, very interesting. I hope you come back to the next Silicon Valley Chapter meeting because that was great. I hope you enjoyed that. I enjoyed having you on.
It was wonderful. Thank you. I'm glad you're always welcome. Thanks for being on and I'll see you soon and everyone else out there in the ether.
Have a good week. We'll see you next week.